I2P Dev Meeting - December 04, 2012

20:18:53 * KillYourTV has noticed that we're 17 minutes into the meeting...and we're off to a quiet start... 20:19:31 <lillith> i was wondering that, did i also get the wrong time or something? 20:20:23 * dg is waiting for self to be free 20:20:30 <dg> some stuff needs wrapping up first 20:20:33 <dg> sorry 20:20:39 <dg> you guys can start without me if you need to 20:23:07 * KillYourTV 's mostly going to be an observer due to his rather insignificant & unimportant roles... 20:23:15 <KillYourTV> ...so start times matter not. 20:23:39 <Meeh> I will be here, but I can wait until dg is ready 20:23:42 <str4d> I wonder if it would be possible to have two IRC leaf connections to the same leaf to reduce netsplits... 20:23:48 <dg> As long as nobody's becoming annoyed, I'll wait a little longer 20:23:59 <dg> Hopefully $task won't be too much longer 20:24:02 <str4d> (without doubling up on messages) 20:24:05 <dg> str4d: not without srs mods to IRCd 20:24:16 <dg> (or i2p hax?) 20:24:22 * KillYourTV nices his tasks to give more CPU time to dg 20:25:07 <str4d> There are already I2P mods for the IRCd so why not redundancy? 20:25:50 <dg> actually 20:25:50 <str4d> I guess it depends on the IRCd 20:26:04 <dg> I kind of see the amount of IRC splits as a way of measuring network health 20:26:19 <dg> For me, it says something about tunnel success :-P 20:27:07 <str4d> Speaking of which. 20:27:30 <KillYourTV> I don't know what mods were applied and why they were needed. (Back in the day ngircd needed a brief mod for b32 displaying...but with webirc it's not needed (and they're not displayed here anyway)) 20:28:00 <str4d> -_- 20:49:54 <psi> orion: re: c++ i2p you mind if i add a build system to your code? probably scons 20:54:16 <dg> I'm ready 20:54:27 <dg> Sorry for the delay, folks 20:55:01 * dg pings #i2p-dev 21:03:16 <str4d> o/ dg 21:04:09 <hottuna> 'lo dg 21:05:07 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> *waves* 21:05:53 <psi> yay 21:05:56 * psi timed out 21:11:17 <hottuna> ready dg? 21:13:23 <dg> sorry, I d/c'd 21:13:26 <dg> What did I miss? 21:13:26 <dg> <+iRelay> <weltende@freenode> *waves* 21:13:26 <dg> chanserv gives voice to psi 21:13:26 <dg> <+psi> yay 21:13:26 <dg> +psi timed out 21:13:26 <dg> s-771 is now known as s-77 21:13:26 <dg> <+dg> yay! 21:13:26 <dg> <+dg> Everyone woke up for me<3 21:13:27 <dg> <+dg> weltende: Any news regarding mailing list? plz have some for me 21:13:27 <Meeh> *waves* 21:13:27 <hottuna> I dont think you missed anything 21:13:27 <psi> yup 21:13:27 <dg> alrighty 21:13:27 <dg> So, weltende: .. 21:14:37 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> not really.. no time so far 21:14:47 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> kytv could do it.. he has root access to the box I had in mind afair ;-) 21:14:50 * dg waits a few minutes 21:15:41 * dg pokes KillYourTV 21:17:30 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> dg: and more cowbell! 21:17:34 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> err.. structure 21:18:02 * dg was never any good at that, but he'll try 21:18:12 * dg moves on 21:18:15 <dg> KillYourTV: ping when back 21:18:21 <dg> So, status updates. 21:18:40 * str4d has ~40 mins, so GTFG fg ;P 21:18:40 <KillYourTV> hmm? I didn't realize I had root but I can to throw some time at it (coursework & moving has taken up a considerable bit of time) 21:18:40 <dg> Are they worth bringing back since we have the meetings (and hopefully the summaries of them, but they're not working out right now)? 21:19:15 <str4d> dg, who would the status updates be for? 21:19:22 <str4d> s/for/aimed at/ 21:19:25 <iRelay> str4d meant: dg, who would the status updates be aimed at? 21:19:34 <dg> Well, I assume the previous ones which jrandom maintained were for those who wanted a TL;DR of the meetings 21:20:06 <dg> Perhaps what we did with the last meeting (on the website) where the results were summarized at the top of the page 21:20:31 <hottuna> They would be nice for the sake of community-building, but also a bit of work. 21:20:49 * dg doesn't think it's a necessity as such but it'd be nice to say what the meeting accomplished/decided 21:21:32 <hottuna> Would anyone like to do it? 21:22:01 <str4d> On the site revamp I've taken the status updates as "blog entries" 21:22:05 <str4d> So it might be better to write those, or structure the status updates as such. 21:22:20 <hottuna> that sounds pretty good 21:22:57 <str4d> (And since the blog will end up with RSS or whatever, that can then be used to feed into any other distribution lines that are desired) 21:23:24 <psi> point 1: to consider, CCC 21:23:27 <lillith> i was thinking after a meeting we could have a new thread on zzz.i2p, to allow people to reply with any follow up things from what has been discussed 21:23:30 <psi> how will "this side" organize? 21:23:55 <hottuna> I support the blog idea, however someone would have to do it. 21:24:50 <psi> oh damn lag 21:25:27 <str4d> And the status updates don't need to necessarily be too "minutes-y", since the meetings section of the revamp is where actual minutes should go (and I'm thinking that the minutes could be put into a feed as well, while the full logs are displayed with the minutes on the site) 21:26:10 <zzz> dg, fyi, jr's status updates were sent out hours before each meeting, and they were not minutes of the previous meeting 21:26:55 <str4d> Ah, thanks zzz - so more of a general get-everyone-up-to-speed-before-the-meeting update. 21:27:10 <zzz> correct 21:27:39 <zzz> dg, fyi, jr's status updates were sent out hours before each meeting, and they were not minutes of the previous meeting 21:28:00 <dg> zzz: ah ok, it was a tl;dr of the $week? 21:28:03 <dg> <+dg> Moving on? 21:28:03 <dg> <+dg> psi: ccc is on the agenda :) 21:28:03 <dg> --- aquarium (grenze@irc2p) has joined #i2p-dev 21:28:06 <dg> --- w8rabbit (w8rabbit@irc2p) has quit (Killed (nickserv (Nick kill enforced))) 21:28:06 <zzz> <str4d> Ah, thanks zzz - so more of a general get-everyone-up-to-speed-before-the-meeting update. 21:28:06 <zzz> <zzz> correct 21:28:09 <dg> <+dg> Next topic: * PR management role (http://zzz.i2p/topics/1299) 21:28:09 <dg> <+dg> I don't know if the guy who posted that is here.. 21:28:09 <str4d> dg, repost: And the status updates don't need to necessarily be too "minutes-y", since the meetings section of the revamp is where actual minutes should go (and I'm thinking that the minutes could be put into a feed as well, while the full logs are displayed with the minutes on the site) 21:28:24 <str4d> Yes he is - orion? 21:28:34 <hottuna> dg, would you be willing to write a status update before meetings in the blog? 21:29:16 <str4d> (he's in-chan at least) 21:29:23 <str4d> And FTR this is the guy working on I2PCPP 21:30:15 * psi is compiling i2pcpp 21:31:12 <psi> i am also looking at the code as well 21:32:58 <psi> i've got a SConstruct file 21:36:03 <dg> damn rats eating the cables 21:36:03 <dg> [repost] 21:36:03 <dg> <+psi> i've got a SConstruct file 21:36:05 <dg> <+dg> str4d: 21:36:05 <dg> <+dg> * Website revamp updates 21:36:05 <dg> <+dg> Anything? 21:36:08 <dg> [/repost] 21:36:12 <str4d> dg, need m0ar stables 21:36:15 <str4d> =P 21:36:21 <dg> :( 21:36:36 <str4d> dg, I've got per-net urls working 21:36:59 <dg> oh nice, progress 21:37:02 <dg> How did you do it? 21:37:06 * psi note to self don't compile with -j8 on a machine with 4 cores 21:37:13 <str4d> So in the page files, if you put <a href="http://{{ i2pconv(trac.i2p2.i2p) }}/"> it will convert to trac.i2p2.de 21:37:32 <str4d> And likewise for any other sites that have (hardcoded) known public urls. 21:37:39 <str4d> Otherwise it appends .to 21:38:16 <str4d> dg, problem was that Flask was caching filters applied to strings. 21:38:19 <str4d> So it was eval-ed on first template read and then stored. 21:38:39 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> psi: unless it does multiple threads per core ;) 21:38:43 <str4d> Turning the filter into a context processor (so the func is eval-ed on every request) did the job. 21:38:46 <dg> Oh, ha 21:39:34 <str4d> I can try generalize the function so you pass in the entire URL and it finds and changes the domain bit, if people would prefer to use it that way. 21:39:45 <str4d> But it Works For Now (TM) 21:40:01 <dg> psi: 21:40:04 <dg> * CCC workshop/lightning talk discussion 21:40:28 <psi> yes 21:40:39 * psi reviews zzz.i2p link 21:40:58 <str4d> (aside: Once I get some free time (after getting the bugs out of the feed mechanism) I'd like to work out the download mirroring stuff with welterde.) 21:42:36 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> str4d: well.. should be simple enough.. text file in mtn with list of all http, ftp mirrors.. 21:44:32 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> (and in the backend just an rsync master site, from which all mirrors pull) 21:44:40 <hottuna> did we choose a lightning talk topic? 21:44:40 <psi> ok regarding CCC there is 0% chance for me to get the required docs to get there in time 21:44:40 <psi> also... lots of "other stuff" 21:44:40 <psi> in general I am overloaded due to finals 21:44:40 <psi> also lag 21:45:31 <str4d> welterde, I guessed so, but I'm not familiar with the current mirror setup. 21:47:26 <str4d> The other thing, of course, is migrating the rest of the old pages across (and tidying up nav layout) 21:48:06 <dg> <+psi> ok regarding CCC there is 0% chance for me to get the required docs to get there in time 21:48:06 <dg> <+psi> also... lots of "other stuff" 21:48:06 <dg> <+psi> in general I am overloaded due to finals 21:48:06 <dg> <+psi> also lag 21:48:06 <dg> <+dg> Could probably ask the audience who has used i2p before 21:48:09 <dg> <+iRelay> <weltende@freenode> (and in the backend just an rsync master site, from which all mirrors pull) 21:48:09 <dg> <+dg> psi: yeah, ech and welt are going though afaik 21:48:11 <dg> <+str4d> welterde, I guessed so, but I'm not familiar with the current mirror setup. 21:51:57 <str4d> Okay, heading off o/ 21:52:13 <dg> bye o/ 21:52:28 <dg> We really should have started earlier 21:52:31 <dg> g'damnit 21:52:47 <str4d> I'll see if I can be back in time for the end, but no guarantees. 21:53:35 <dg> alright, stenography 21:53:42 * dg pokes Meeh 21:54:01 <psi> we need a generic interface for making transports 21:54:04 <psi> (imo) 21:54:23 <psi> s/need/should\ have/ 21:54:26 <iRelay> psi meant: we should\ have a generic interface for making transports 21:55:08 <Meeh> I'm here, sorry just got disturbed with a phone call, back now 21:55:16 <dg> afaik there's something called "restricted routes" but I don't know how they work 21:55:19 <Meeh> *catchin up/reading log* 21:55:22 <dg> (nor have they been implemented..?) 21:55:28 <dg> Meeh: there isn't too much to read.. :( 21:55:50 <psi> dg no docs on that? 21:56:10 <dg> psi: mention on www.i2p2.i2p is all I found under roadmap or something.. 21:56:47 <psi> if anyone happens to remember what "restricted routes" are/were please speak up 21:56:50 <lillith> dg, as i understand it restricted routes are like 'darknet mode' on freenet, you only connect via trusted peers 21:56:57 <psi> ah 21:57:16 <dg> ah 21:57:31 <lillith> i think :) 21:57:34 <psi> sounds like that could be it 21:58:11 <dg> matches the name 21:58:33 <lillith> it's been mentioned on zzz.i2p recently iirc 21:59:40 <psi> if someone who does know for sure from way back when a "confirmation" would be great 22:01:31 <lillith> http://zzz.i2p/topics/114 22:04:31 * dg reads 22:04:31 <lillith> it's not what i meant, but it explains pretty thoroughly 22:06:02 <Meeh> just wondering, where are we in the meeting? 22:06:13 <Meeh> what's current topic 22:06:16 <dg> We're kind of floating around, Meeh 22:06:23 <Meeh> ah ok 22:06:31 <dg> "* Hide I2P traffic. Like Tor, hide so it looks like SSL traffic, or something. (Considering countries where darknets is illegal) " 22:06:41 <dg> (We started late and thus sucking) 22:08:10 <Meeh> yea, we should think about possible alternative transport for countries blocking and making darknets illegal 22:09:47 <lillith> well to start with: how distinctive is i2p traffic now? 22:09:50 <hottuna> I think we ought to play something like that the same way tor does 22:09:50 <hottuna> and deploy it not before it is needed 22:09:50 <hottuna> as to prolong any arms-race 22:09:50 <hottuna> but we haven't been blocked anywhere yet 22:09:50 <hottuna> as far as I know 22:10:05 <dg> (yet) 22:10:25 <dg> Also, the lack of this sort of "protection" i.e system keeps some away from i2p 22:10:32 <psi> in general a generic transport api would be a developer's goldmine 22:10:32 <hottuna> we have a lot of random data, but none of the headers of ssl 22:10:57 <dg> obfsproxy is amazing but we don't need something of that level 22:11:48 <psi> some interface that you'd implement that does your version of data transport wether it's over goats or http+ssl 22:11:50 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> psi: we already have a generic transport api ;) 22:11:54 <lillith> i2p can't really be 'too secure' 22:12:02 <hottuna> a transport api would be a good idea, and would allow for rapid development of needed transports 22:12:14 <psi> we do eh? 22:12:36 <psi> i need to look at the code closer 22:12:56 <psi> either it's not sticking out well or i over looked it or it's not there 22:13:03 <Meeh> yea, yet.. it's a matter of time 22:13:36 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> router/java/src/net/i2p/router/transport/Transport.java is the interface you have implement 22:13:36 <dg> certainly not, lillith 22:13:46 <dg> although i2p is already a lot of crypto 22:14:17 <hottuna> i think obfsproxy is horrible, and it's tacked onto tor in the most frankenstein-y fashion possible 22:14:40 <dg> I don't like their pluggable transports but the tech is cool 22:14:48 <dg> (emulating Skype is one cool thing) 22:17:27 <psi> iirc obsproxy can be counter productive 22:17:33 <hottuna> i've gotta go 22:17:46 <psi> due to it emulating a survalence network 22:17:53 * psi spelling 22:18:00 <dg> bye 22:19:55 <psi> i've got to part for now as well 22:20:27 <dg> I think we can just call it a day now and have it next week/sometime soon(er) 22:20:34 <dg> Kind of fucked this one up 22:21:04 <iRelay> <weltende@freenode> sounds like a plan 22:21:07 <psi> it's best to have a predefine meeting structure 22:21:54 <dg> yeah 22:26:10 <Meeh> disconnected... 22:26:29 <Meeh> 23:10:30 <+psi> in general a generic transport api would be a developer's goldmine 22:26:32 <Meeh> 23:10:31 <hottuna> we have a lot of random data, but none of the headers of ssl 22:26:35 <Meeh> 23:13:01 <+Meeh> yea, yet.. it's a matter of time 22:26:38 <Meeh> 23:13:15 <+Meeh> so why make people offline from i2p for a while.. better safe than sorry 22:26:41 <Meeh> what did I miss? 22:27:11 <psi> Meeh: meeting adjurned for now 22:27:11 * psi spelling 22:27:58 <psi> <dg> certainly not, lillith 22:27:58 <Meeh> ah, lame.. meeting next week? 22:28:10 * psi lag 22:28:55 <lillith> Meeh, to be decided, maybe before since this one wasn't a great success 22:29:25 <Meeh> true true, next week then