I2P Dev Meeting - March 11, 2014

20:00:26 <zzz> 0. Hi 20:00:26 <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh) 20:00:26 <zzz> 2. Git (Meeh) 20:00:26 <zzz> 3. Echelon reduced services / incorporation 20:00:26 <zzz> 0. Hi 20:00:27 <zzz> Hi 20:00:33 <zzz> Let's limit each topic to about 15 minutes 20:01:43 <eche|on> hi 20:02:02 <orion> Hi. 20:02:29 <inscrut_> hi eche|on 20:02:39 <inscrut_> o/ orion 20:02:48 <topiltzin> hi 20:04:08 <inscrut_> yo topz 20:05:15 <str4d> hey 20:05:26 <topiltzin> netsplit 20:05:54 <str4d> boo 20:05:59 <str4d> hiss 20:06:15 * inscrut_ lobs a tomato 20:08:58 <topiltzin> alright, meeting's over. Move along now 20:09:01 <eche|on> on topics 0-2 I am rather more or less "go ahead". 20:09:12 <zzz> ok lets try this again 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 0. Hi 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh) 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 2. Git (Meeh) 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 3. Echelon reduced services / incorporation 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 0. Hi 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> Hi 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> Let's limit each topic to about 15 minutes 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> For 2 and 3, which are large and oft-discussed topics, let's focus on where we are now and what to do next, not how we got here 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> I don't expect to reach any decisions on 2 or 3, but it would be nice to come up with next steps for research if necessary 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> Also, background on the agenda items are at the link in /topic above. 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh) 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> Meeh are you here? 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> skipping 1 and 2 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> 3. Echelon reduced services / incorporation 20:09:12 <zzz> <zzz> eche|on, are you here? 20:09:44 <zzz> so we skipped 1 and 2 and are on 3. eche|on the floor is yours 20:10:12 <eche|on> due to a lot of private and non private issues, I reduced my services and will reduce some more 20:10:20 <eche|on> e.g. false.i2p is down 20:10:48 <eche|on> which service will be next I cannot tell currently, I will keep on being the money guy for this year at least 20:11:27 <eche|on> I just got some thoughts now tha I could not stop I2P from loosing money due to fraud and other stuff, it gets harder 20:11:54 <eche|on> also the more money, the tougher it gets, esp. with companies donation money to us, which we should spent on "useful" stuff. 20:12:17 <orion> I'd like to interject. 20:12:19 <eche|on> it is all not really clear, more a "feeling", I know, but I just want to inform you 20:13:33 <AK-47> Thanks for the time it lasted, anyway. 20:13:33 <psi> hi 20:13:33 <zzz> eche|on, you have any specific proposals to bring to us today? 20:14:30 <zzz> two possibilities that may lessen your workload slightly - making orion "asst. treasurer - U.S. $$" and Meeh "asst. treasurer - BTC/altcoin" --- would either of those help at all? 20:14:31 <eche|on> my propopsal: think hard about getting incorporated and if not 20:14:50 <eche|on> a $ treasurer will help for $ donations, sure 20:15:00 <eche|on> and meeh for alt/btc would be fine, too 20:15:43 <inscrut_> is it possible to publicise the books? perhaps as a dual-entry ledger? 20:15:52 <eche|on> books? 20:16:01 <eche|on> http://echelon.i2p/donations/index.html 20:16:09 <iRelay> Title: Donations (at echelon.i2p) 20:16:26 <orion> I want to make two separate proposals. The first one is thus: We should keep the money spread out in multiple currencies (dollar, euro, *coin). 20:16:39 <orion> And they should be held in different jurisdictions. 20:16:40 <eche|on> my bigger problem/fear is the amount of nearly 40k in my hand. as this is "official" my money, for the law. not I2p. 20:17:54 <str4d> hmm. So if you independently have financial trouble, legally you would need to wipe out I2P funds. 20:18:15 <eche|on> correct 20:18:32 <eche|on> thats the problem with being not a legal entity 20:18:54 <eche|on> and thats why I do not want more than 50k here, more or less 20:21:36 <orion> eche|on: Before considering incorporation, do you agree that the money should be held in both different currencies and jurisdictions? 20:21:43 <eche|on> I do not have big problems (personal) with more than 50k, but if there are problems, I2P will loose, which is not my intention 20:22:05 <zzz> there's some benefit in keeping a $$ account. Much of our income and expenses is in $$ and we lose lots in the round-trip conversions 20:22:13 <eche|on> orion: a US based $ account is usefull and if someone wants it: yes 20:22:34 <orion> I will volunteer to hold USD in an account. 20:23:40 <zzz> is it managable for mutliple ppl to hold money and yet roll up the totals and transactions on the hall-of-fame page? 20:24:25 <eche|on> it is possible due to mtn/git hosting of our webpage 20:24:42 <eche|on> we would need a table/section for each currency 20:25:06 <str4d> displaying it is simple 20:25:07 <eche|on> if we want to divide ONE currency upon 2+x people, they need to interact good 20:26:58 <zzz> eche|on would remain treasurer and responsible for keeping the totals, with assistants responsible for keeping track of their part? 20:27:00 <eche|on> about incorporation: 50k is not worth the hassle IMHO, but there IS a risk 20:27:16 <eche|on> zzz: would be fine. 20:27:30 <zzz> incororation does very little to reduce risk 20:27:50 <eche|on> but it takes the risk off me ;-) 20:29:03 <orion> I have a proposal that doesn't involve incorporation: a trust fund 20:29:03 <str4d> doesn't prevent willful money loss, but prevents legal loss due to personal insolvency 20:29:06 <zzz> so the proposal is to make orion an assistant treasurer - U.S. --- any objections or further discussion on that? 20:29:07 <topiltzin> don't spend the bitcoins on acid 20:29:09 <str4d> I second orion's nomination 20:29:59 <zzz> ok sounds like a done deal, eche|on and orion can work out the details. 20:30:16 <eche|on> addendum to the topic list: 20:30:24 <eche|on> 4. 50BTC Bitcoin client bounty 20:30:43 <zzz> We're about at the end of our 15 minutes. Any next steps on incorporation or proposals or things to do or research re: incorporation? 20:30:53 <eche|on> 50BTC is alot of money for a plugin of I2P btc. Proposal: reduce to 10 and 40BTC into general fund 20:31:05 <zzz> ok ech you're on the list for #4 20:31:15 <orion> topiltzin: I won't. :x 20:31:29 <zzz> last call for topic 3 20:31:35 <orion> zzz: Trust fund. 20:31:52 <orion> I want to propose that as a cheap alternative to incorporation. 20:32:25 <zzz> ok, how about if you write up a proposal and post it somewhere and we can discuss at a future meeting? 20:32:41 <str4d> With e.g. What are the legal differences? 20:33:46 <zzz> declaring end of topic 3 20:33:50 <zzz> back to topic 1 20:33:52 <zzz> 1. anoncoin.i2p console home page request (Meeh) 20:34:09 <zzz> any discussions agreement or objections to anoncoin.i2p on the home page? 20:34:44 <eche|on> go ahead, add it 20:35:41 <zzz> anoncoin could be about to go big and Meeh's working on marketing it more to the I2P community 20:35:48 <zzz> last call for 1 20:36:22 <eche|on> I would be carefull about "getting big" even litecoin did not got big, its all a bit of a hype, but hey, great anoncoin is known for I2P 20:36:40 <eche|on> to bad snowden did no marketing for I2P 20:36:49 <zzz> heh. 20:37:03 <zzz> but talk to Meeh if you have any questions about his plans 20:37:06 <str4d> I couldn't view the website, but I have no obvious objections. 20:37:08 <eche|on> will do 20:37:16 <zzz> end of 1. I'll add it. 20:37:17 <zzz> 2. Git (Meeh) 20:37:30 <efkt> +1 for anoncoin 20:37:38 <orion> No objections for anoncoin. 20:37:39 <eche|on> git - no real objection, except the resume issue and a need for a howto 20:37:40 <zzz> any thoughts on git? 20:37:56 <zzz> is there a resume issue? 20:38:08 <str4d> Pros: 20:38:12 <eche|on> afaik GIT does not resume 20:38:16 <str4d> Everyone knows it 20:38:24 <orion> Wait, what is resume? 20:38:32 <orion> What is the context of this topic? 20:38:50 <zzz> http://zzz.i2p/topics/1588 <--- context 20:38:56 <iRelay> Title: zzz.i2p: Meeting Tues. Mar. 11 8 PM UTC (at zzz.i2p) 20:38:57 <topiltzin> If the connection breaks during a fetch/clone/pull/push 20:39:03 <eche|on> orion: on a big clone/pull/... tunnel breaks, does git start over from beginning or in middle of transaction? 20:40:11 <str4d> Everything supports it 20:40:12 <str4d> Can sign or approve commits with GPG keys 20:40:12 <str4d> orion: possible mive from mtn to git 20:40:12 <str4d> Cons: 20:41:09 <str4d> - Resume not supported (if a pull fails partway you have to start from beginning) 20:41:09 <str4d> - local timezone stored in commit 20:41:09 <str4d> (fix with alias git='TZ=UTC git') 20:41:41 <zzz> HH recently accepted a pull request on github i2p.i2p. If he can do that, why switch to git? Is real git better than exporting? 20:42:05 <topiltzin> real git would be anonymous as we wouldn't be using github 20:42:42 <topiltzin> there are other issues with exporting - changes since last export not visible until the next export 20:42:49 <zzz> I thought the point was to make github pulls easier 20:43:26 <zzz> if a new contributor has to run git inside i2p, did we really make it any easier for him? 20:43:58 <topiltzin> if we did what? 20:44:14 <zzz> switched to git, whatever that means 20:44:37 <topiltzin> I assume we would have in-i2p as well as clearnet git servers, much like we have them in mtn now 20:45:46 <topiltzin> and they would sync periodically just like now. Conceptually everything stays the same, all we change is the software 20:45:53 <zzz> I guess I dont know how pull requests work so I'll stop asking questions 20:47:30 <topiltzin> pull request is like saying: "Please sync from my git repo" 20:47:56 <topiltzin> on a conceptual level there is very little difference between git and mtn. It's surprising how similar their mechanisms are 20:47:56 <zzz> how about a straw poll - anybody who has an opinion, type in ++, +, 0, -, or -- for strongly in favor/in favor/neutral/opposed/strongly opposed to moving to git 20:48:05 <topiltzin> ++ 20:48:08 <orion> ++ 20:48:17 <eche|on> 0 20:49:02 <zzz> 0 20:50:14 <zzz> any volunteers to research further and report back? 20:51:08 <topiltzin> any specifics on what to research? 20:51:28 <zzz> we have e.g. viewmtn, trac, and some mtn stuff embedded in our build scripts that would all need to be addressed. Anybody to make a list of what would be required and how much work 20:51:59 <zzz> and whether the resume issue is a serious problem or not 20:53:01 <zzz> well then, lets put it back on Meeh since it's his agenda item. We'll ask him to report back at a future meeting. 20:53:10 <zzz> anything else on 2? 20:53:12 <topiltzin> I'll take a look, although I imagine kytv would know best about the build scripts, no? 20:53:42 <zzz> the build stuff is mostly my doing 20:53:52 <zzz> end of 2) 20:53:59 <zzz> 4. 50BTC Bitcoin client bounty - echelon go 20:54:39 <eche|on> ok, the native bitcoin client still has 50 BTC leftover for the task of "integrating btc client into I2P client", aka: plugin 20:55:38 <eche|on> there is already a btc client for I2p (IMHO giv made it) and he got 68 BTC and 30 from the bounty for the standalone client 20:56:08 <eche|on> now: 50 BTC is A LOT for making a plugin. I would like to split it, e.g. 10 BTC for plugin, 40 for general fund 20:56:28 <str4d> even 10BTC is a lot. 20:57:12 <kytv> (1BTC is a lot) 20:57:22 <kytv> (for a plugin) 20:59:04 <eche|on> I do not know, thats why I set it on topic 20:59:16 <eche|on> I do not want to be the bad guy "stealing" money from bounties 21:02:42 <zzz> no objections to splitting it 21:03:00 <eche|on> ok 21:03:09 <eche|on> will do so 21:03:22 <zzz> anybody else with thoughts on 4) 21:03:45 <kytv> just to be clear: no objections on splitting. 21:03:52 <zzz> anything else for the meeting? 21:04:23 * zzz encourages people to discuss things between meetings 21:04:41 <kytv> (big objection to 50BTC going to a plugin...i mean http://coinmill.com/BTC_EUR.html#BTC=50) 21:04:45 <iRelay> Title: Convert Bitcoins (BTC) and Euros (EUR): Currency Exchange Rate Conversion Calculator (at coinmill.com) 21:04:53 <zzz> and reminds that anybody can schedule a meeting on any topic at any time 21:05:06 * zzz *bafs* the meeting closed