Quick recap
Present: deer, duck, hypercubus, Masterboy, mihi, Nightblade, tessier, wilde
Meeting Log
[23:00] <duck> 1) code progress [23:00] <duck> 2) featured content [23:00] <duck> 3) testnet status [23:00] <duck> 4) bounties [23:00] <duck> 5) ??? [23:00] <Masterboy> hi:) [23:00] <duck> . [23:01] <duck> since jrandom is off we’ll have to do it ourself [23:01] <duck> (I know that he is logging and verifying our independency) [23:01] <Masterboy> no problem:P [23:02] <duck> unless there are problems with the agenda I propose that we stick to it [23:02] <duck> though there aint much that I can do if you dont :) [23:02] <duck> . [23:02] <mihi> ;) [23:02] <duck> 1) code progress [23:02] <duck> not much code submitted to cvs [23:02] <duck> I did win the trophy this week: http://duck.i2p/duck_trophy.webp [23:03] * hypercubus has no cvs account yet [23:03] <Masterboy> and who did submit something? [23:03] <duck> anybody doing any secret coding? [23:03] * Nightblade has joined #I2P
[23:03] <hypercubus> BrianR was working on some stuff [23:04] <hypercubus> i’ve got maybe 20% of the 0.4 installer hacked out [23:04] <duck> hypercubus: if you have stuff then provide diffs and $dev will commit for you [23:04] <duck> ofcourse the strict license agreements apply [23:05] <duck> hypercubus: cool, any issues / things worth mentioning? [23:06] <hypercubus> not yet, but i’ll probably need a couple of BSD people to test the preinstaller shell scripts [23:06] * duck turns some stones [23:06] <Nightblade> is it text-only [23:07] <mihi> duck: which one is you on duck_trophy.webp? [23:07] <mihi> ;) [23:07] <Nightblade> luckypunk has freebsd, also my isp has freebsd but their config is kind of screwed up [23:07] <Nightblade> my web host isp that is, not comcast [23:08] <duck> mihi: left one with the glasses. wilde is the right guy handing me the trophy [23:08] * wilde waves [23:08] <hypercubus> you have a choice… if you have java installed, you can skip the preinstaller altogether… if you don’t have java installed you can run the linux binary or win32 binary preinstaller (console mode), or a generic *nix script preinstaller (console mode) [23:08] <hypercubus> the main installer gives you the choice of using console mode or spiffy GUI mode [23:08] <Masterboy> i will install freebsd soon so in the future i will give a try to the installer too [23:09] <hypercubus> ok good… didn’t know if anyone else besides jrandom was using it [23:09] <Nightblade> freebsd java is invoked as “javavm” rather than “java” [23:09] <hypercubus> as built from sun sources? [23:09] <mihi> freebsd supports symlinks ;) [23:10] <hypercubus> anyhow the binary preinstaller is 100% complete [23:10] <hypercubus> compiles with gcj to native [23:11] <hypercubus> it just asks you for the install dir, and it grabs a JRE for you [23:11] <duck> w00t [23:11] <Nightblade> cool [23:11] <hypercubus> jrandom’s packaging a custom JRE for i2p
[23:12] <deer> <j> . [23:12] <Nightblade> if you install java from the freebsd ports collection you use some wrapper script called javavm [23:12] <deer> <r> . [23:12] <hypercubus> anyhow this puppy will be almost completely automated [23:12] <deer> <r> . [23:12] <deer> <r> . [23:12] <deer> <r> . [23:12] <deer> <duck> r: cut it [23:12] <deer> <r> . [23:12] <deer> <m> . [23:13] <deer> <m> stoopid irc server, does not support pipelining :( [23:13] <duck> hypercubus: got any ETA for us? [23:14] <deer> <m> oops, the problem is “Nick change too fast” :( [23:14] <hypercubus> i still expect to be finished in under a month, before 0.4 is ripe for release [23:14] <hypercubus> though at present i’m compiling a new OS for my dev system, so it’ll be a couple of days before i get back to the installer ;-) [23:14] <hypercubus> no worries though [23:15] <duck> ok. so more news next week :) [23:15] <duck> any other coding done? [23:15] <hypercubus> hopefully… unless the power company screws me again [23:16] * duck moves to #2 [23:16] <duck> * 2) featured content [23:16] <duck> lots of streaming audio (ogg/vorbis) done this week [23:16] <duck> baffled is running his egoplay stream and I am running a stream too [23:16] <Masterboy> and it works quite good [23:17] <duck> on our site you can get info how to use it [23:17] <hypercubus> got any rough stats for us? [23:17] <duck> if you use a player not listed there and figure out how to use it, please send them to me and I’ll add [23:17] <Masterboy> duck where is the link to baffleds stream on your site? [23:17] <Masterboy> :P [23:17] <duck> hypercubus: 4kB/s goes pretty well [23:18] <duck> and with ogg it aint tooooo bad [23:18] <hypercubus> but that still seems to be the avg. speed? [23:18] <duck> my observation is that is the max [23:18] <duck> but it is all config tweaking [23:19] <hypercubus> any idea why that seems to be the max? [23:19] <hypercubus> and i’m not just talking streaming here [23:19] <hypercubus> but downloads too [23:20] <Nightblade> i was downloading some big files yesterday (a couple megabytes) off of duck’s hosting service and i was getting about 4kb-5kb as well [23:20] <duck> I think that it is the rtt [23:20] <Nightblade> those Chips movies [23:20] <hypercubus> 4-5 seems an improvement over the ~3 that i’ve gotten consistently since i started using i2p
[23:20] <Masterboy> 4-5kb is not bad.. [23:20] <duck> with a windowsize of 1 you dont get much faster.. [23:20] <duck> windowsize>1 bounty: http://www.i2p.net/node/view/224 [23:21] <duck> mihi: maybe you can comment? [23:21] <hypercubus> but it is a remarkably consistent 3 kbps [23:21] <mihi> on what? windowsize>1 with ministreaming: you are a wizard if you manage that ;) [23:21] <hypercubus> no hiccups on the bandwidth meter… a fairly smooth line [23:21] <duck> mihi: on why it is so stable at 4kb/s [23:21] <mihi> no idea. i don’t hear any sound :( [23:22] <duck> mihi: for all i2ptunnel transfers [23:22] <Masterboy> mihi you need to config the ogg streaming plugin.. [23:22] <mihi> Masterboy:? [23:23] <mihi> no, there is no limit inside i2ptunnel regarding speed. it must be in the router… [23:23] <duck> my thinking: max packet size: 32kB, 5 second rtt: 32kB/5s =~ 6.5kb/s [23:24] <hypercubus> sounds plausible [23:25] <duck> ok.. [23:25] <duck> other content: [23:25] * hirvox has joined #i2p
[23:25] <duck> there is a new eepsite from Naughtious [23:25] <duck> anonynanny.i2p [23:25] <duck> key is commited to cvs and he did put it on ugha’s wiki [23:25] * mihi is hearing “sitting in the …” - duck++ [23:25] <Nightblade> see if you can open two or three streams at a 4kb speed then you will be able to tell if it is in the router or the streaming lib [23:26] <duck> Naughtious: you there? tell something about your plan :) [23:26] <Masterboy> i have read that he provides hosting [23:26] <duck> Nightblade: I did try 3 parallel downloads from baffled and I got 3-4kB each [23:26] <Nightblade> i c [23:27] <mihi> Nightblade: how can you tell that then? [23:27] * mihi likes listening in “stop&go” mode ;) [23:27] <Nightblade> well if there is some kind of limitation in the router that only lets it handle 4kb at once [23:27] <Nightblade> or if it is something else [23:28] <hypercubus> can someone explain this anonynanny site? i don’t have a running i2p router atm [23:28] <mihi> hypercubus: just a wiki or some sort of it [23:28] <duck> plone CMS setup, open account creation [23:28] <duck> allows file upload and website stuff [23:28] <duck> through web interface [23:28] <Nightblade> another thing to do would be to test the throughput of the “repliable datagram” which afaik is the same as the streams but without acks [23:28] <duck> likely a lot like drupal [23:28] <hypercubus> yeah i’ve run plone before [23:29] <duck> Nightblade: I have been thinking about using airhook to manage those [23:29] <duck> but so far only some basic thought [23:29] <hypercubus> anything goes for the wiki content, or does it center on something in particular? [23:29] <Nightblade> i think airhook is GPLed [23:29] <duck> the protocol [23:29] <duck> not the code [23:29] <Nightblade> ah :) [23:30] <duck> hypercubus: he wants quality content, and lets you provide that :) [23:30] <Masterboy> upload the best pr0n of yourself you have got hyper;P [23:30] <duck> ok [23:30] * Masterboy will try to do that too [23:30] <hypercubus> yeah, anyone running an open wiki is just asking for quality content ;-) [23:31] <duck> ok [23:31] * duck moves to #3 [23:31] <duck> * 3) testnet status [23:31] <Nightblade> Airhook gracefully handles intermittent, unreliable, or delayed networks <– hehe not an optimistic description of I2P! [23:31] <duck> how has it been going? [23:32] <duck> lets put the datagram over i2p discussion to the end [23:32] <tessier> I love to run around to open wiki’s and link to this: http://www.fissure.org/humour/pics/squirre l.webp [23:32] <tessier> airhook rocks [23:32] <tessier> I’ve been looking at it for building a p2p network also. [23:32] <Nightblade> it seems to be reliable to me (#3) [23:32] <Nightblade> best i’ve seen so far [23:33] <duck> yeah [23:33] <mihi> works well - at least for stop&go audio streaming [23:33] <duck> I see quite impressive uptimes on irc [23:33] <hypercubus> agreed… seeing lots more blue guys in my router console [23:33] <Nightblade> mihi: are you listening to techno ? :) [23:33] <duck> but hard to tell since bogobot doesnt seem to handle connections that go over 00:00 [23:33] <tessier> audio streaming works great for me but loading websites often takes a number of tries [23:33] <Masterboy> i have an opinion that i2p runs very good after 6 hours of use in the 6th hour i used the irc for 7 hours and so my router was running for 13hours [23:33] <duck> (hint) [23:34] <hypercubus> duck: er… heheh [23:34] <hypercubus> i could fix that i guess [23:34] <hypercubus> do you have the logging set for daily? [23:34] <duck> hypercubus++ [23:34] <hypercubus> log rotation that is [23:34] <duck> oh yes [23:34] <duck> duck– [23:34] <hypercubus> that’s why [23:34] <Nightblade> I was at work all day and turned on my computer and started i2p and was on duck’s irc server in just a few minutes [23:35] <duck> I have been seeing some weird DNFs [23:35] <duck> even when connecting to my own eepsites [23:35] <duck> (http://dev.i2p.net/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=74) [23:35] <duck> I think that is what causes most problems now [23:35] <hypercubus> bogoparser will only analyze uptimes that occur wholly within a single logfile… so if the logfile encompasses only 24 hours, nobody will show up as connected longer than 24 hours [23:35] <duck> Masterboy and ughabugha did also have it I think… [23:36] <Masterboy> yup [23:36] <duck> (fix it and you will win next weeks trophy for sure!) [23:37] <deer> <mihi> bogobot is excited? ;) [23:37] <Masterboy> i tried my web site and sometimes when i hit refresh it takes the other route? and i have to wait for it to load but i never wait;P i hit it again and it shows instantly [23:37] <deer> <mihi> oops, sry. forgot that this is gated… [23:38] <duck> Masterboy: do the timeouts take 61 seconds? [23:39] <duck> mihi: bogobot set to weekly rotations now [23:39] * mihi has quit IRC (“bye, and have a nice meeting”) [23:40] <Masterboy> sorry i didn’t check it on my web site when i can’t reatch it instantly i just hit refresh and it loads instantly.. [23:40] <duck> hm [23:40] <duck> well, it needs to be fixed [23:41] <duck> …. #4 [23:41] <Masterboy> i think the route is given not the same eatch time [23:41] <duck> * 4) bounties [23:41] <duck> Masterboy: local connections should be cutted short [23:42] <duck> wilde had some bounty thoughts… you there? [23:42] <Masterboy> maybe it is a peer selection bug [23:42] <wilde> I’m not sure that was for the agenda really [23:42] <duck> oh [23:42] <wilde> ok but the thoughts were something like: [23:42] <Masterboy> i think then we go public the bounty system will work better [23:43] <Nightblade> masterboy: yes there are two tunnels for each connection, or that is how i understand it from reading the router.config [23:43] <wilde> we could use this month to do some small advertising of i2p and increase the bounty pool a bit [23:43] <Masterboy> i can see that the Mute project is going good - they got 600$ and they didn’t code a lot yet;P [23:44] <wilde> target against freedom communities, crypto people, etc [23:44] <Nightblade> I don’t think jrandom wants advertising [23:44] <wilde> not public slashdot attention, no [23:44] <hypercubus> that’s what i’ve observed as well [23:44] <Masterboy> i want to push it again - when we go public the system will work a lot better;P [23:45] <wilde> Masterboy: bounties could speed up myi2p development for example [23:45] <Masterboy> and as jr said no public till 1.0 and only some attention after 0.4 [23:45] <Masterboy> *wrote [23:45] <wilde> when we have like $500+ for a bounty people could actually survive for some weeks [23:46] <hypercubus> the tricky part is, even if we target a small dev community, like cough Mute devs, those guys might spread the word about i2p further than we’d like [23:46] <Nightblade> someone could make a career out of fixing i2p bugs [23:46] <hypercubus> and too soon [23:46] <wilde> i2p links are already in many public places [23:46] <Masterboy> you google and you can find i2p
[23:47] <hypercubus> obscure public places ;-) (i saw the i2p link on a freesite… i’m lucky the damn freesite even loaded!) [23:47] <wilde> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2p [23:47] <Masterboy> but i agree that no advertising till 0.4 is done [23:47] <Masterboy> wha??????? [23:47] <wilde> http://www.ovmj.org/GNUnet/links.php3?xlang=English [23:48] <Masterboy> protol0l does a great job;P [23:48] <Masterboy> ;)))))) [23:48] <hypercubus> nice typo ;-) [23:48] <wilde> ok anyway, I agree we should still keep I2P private (jr read this log ;) [23:49] <Masterboy> who did that? [23:49] <Masterboy> i think the Freenet crew discussion gave more attention.. [23:50] <Masterboy> and jr discussing with toad give a lot info to the big public.. [23:50] <Masterboy> so as in ughas wiki - we can all blame jr for that;P [23:50] <wilde> ok anyway, we’ll see if we can bring in some $ without bringing in /. [23:50] <Masterboy> agreed [23:50] <hypercubus> the freenet dev list is hardly what i call the “big public” ;-) [23:50] <wilde> . [23:51] <hypercubus> wilde: you’ll have a lot of $ sooner than you think ;-) [23:51] <wilde> oh come on, even my mum subscribe to freenet-devl [23:51] <duck> my mum reads through gmame [23:51] <deer> <clayboy> freenet-devl is being taught in schools here [23:52] <wilde> . [23:52] <Masterboy> so we will see more bounties after we go 0.4 stable.. [23:53] <Masterboy> that is after 2 months;P [23:53] <wilde> where did that duck go? [23:53] <duck> thanks wilde [23:53] <hypercubus> though as the only bounty claimant thus far, i have to say that the bounty money had no bearing on my decision to take up the challenge [23:54] <wilde> hehe, it would if it been 100x [23:54] <duck> wyou are too good for the world [23:54] <Nightblade> haha [23:54] * duck moves to #5 [23:54] <hypercubus> wilde, $100 doesn’t mean shit to me ;-) [23:54] <duck> 100 * 10 = 1000 [23:55] * duck pops(“5 airhook”) [23:55] <duck> tessier: got any real-world experience with it [23:55] <duck> (http://www.airhook.org/) [23:55] * Masterboy will try dis out:P [23:56] <duck> java implementation (dunno if it even works) http://cvs.ofb.net/airhook-j/ [23:56] <duck> python implementation (a mess, did work in the past) http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/khashmir /khashmir/airhook.py [23:58] * duck opens the rant-valve [23:58] <Nightblade> j one is also gpl [23:58] <duck> port it to pubdomain [23:58] <hypercubus> amen [23:58] <Nightblade> the entire protocol doc is only about 3 pages - it can’t be that hard [23:59] <Masterboy> nothing is hard [23:59] <Masterboy> it’s just not easy [23:59] <duck> I dont think that it is fully specced though [23:59] * hypercubus takes away masterboy’s fortune cookies [23:59] <duck> you might need to dive into the C code for a reference implementation [00:00] <Nightblade> I would do it myself but I am busy with other i2p stuff right now [00:00] <Nightblade> (and also my full-time job) [00:00] <hypercubus> duck: maybe a bounty for it? [00:00] <Nightblade> there already is [00:00] <Masterboy> ? [00:00] <Masterboy> ahh Pseudonyms [00:00] <duck> it could be used at 2 levels [00:00] <duck> 1) as a transport besides TCP [00:01] <duck> 2) as a protocol to handle datagrams inside i2cp/sam [00:01] <hypercubus> that’s worth serious consideration then [00:01] <hypercubus> </obvious>
[00:02] <Nightblade> duck: i noticed that the repliable datagram in SAM has a maximum size of 31kb, whereas the stream has a maximum size of 32kb - making me think that the sender’s destination is sent with each packet in repliable datagram mode, and only at the beginning for a stream mode - [00:02] <Masterboy> well airhook cvs is not very updated.. [00:03] <Nightblade> making me think that it would be inefficient to make a protocol on top of the repliable datagrams through sam [00:03] <duck> airhooks message size is 256 bytes, i2cp’s is 32kb, so you need to atleast change a bit [00:04] <Nightblade> actually if you wanted to do the protocol in SAM you could just use the anoymous datagram and have the first packet contain the sender’s destination…. blah blah blah - i have lots of ideas but not enough time to code them [00:06] <duck> then again you have to problems to verify signatures [00:06] <duck> so someone could send fake packages to you [00:06] <Masterboy> topic:::: SAM [00:06] <Masterboy> ;P [00:07] <Nightblade> true [00:08] <Nightblade> but if you sent back to that destination and there was no acknowledgement you’d know it was a faker [00:08] <Nightblade> there woudl have to be a handshake [00:08] <duck> but you’ll need aapplication level handshakes for that [00:08] <Nightblade> no not really [00:09] <Nightblade> just put it in a library for accessing SAM [00:09] <Nightblade> that is a bad way of doing though [00:09] <Nightblade> doing it though [00:09] <duck> you could also use seperated tunnels [00:09] <Nightblade> it shuold be in the streaming lib [00:11] <duck> yup. makes sense [00:12] <duck> ok [00:12] <duck> I am feeling baff-y [00:13] <Nightblade> ja [00:13] * duck baffs