I2P Dev Meeting - June 08, 2004

21:02:08 <duck> Tue Jun 8 21:02:08 UTC 2004 21:02:21 <duck> meeting time 21:02:33 <duck> writeup is at http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-June/000268.html 21:02:39 <duck> but I did make a mistake in the numbering 21:02:45 <duck> so the first item 5 will be skipped 21:02:53 <hypercubus> yay! 21:03:03 * duck puts some ice in his beer 21:03:14 * mihi 'd rename first #5 to #4 ;) 21:03:27 <hypercubus> nah, let's just have two item 4's next week ;-) 21:03:37 * duck renames 'hypercubus' to 'mihi' 21:03:48 <hypercubus> yay! 21:03:49 <duck> ok 21:03:53 <duck> * 1) libsam 21:04:02 <duck> is there a Nightblade in the channel? 21:04:39 <duck> (idle : 0 days 0 hours 0 mins 58 secs) 21:05:03 <hypercubus> ;-) 21:05:53 * duck reclaims the microphone 21:06:15 <duck> Nightblade wrote a SAM lib for C / C++ 21:06:23 <duck> it compiles for me.. but that is all I can say :) 21:06:37 <mihi> no test cases? ;) 21:07:06 <duck> if there are any rFfreebsd users Nightblade might be interested in you 21:07:08 <ugha_node> The strstr calls really annoyed me in the code. ;) 21:07:27 <ugha_node> duck: What's a rFfreebsd? 21:07:42 <duck> how I did type freebsd 21:08:00 <mihi> rm -rF freebsd? 21:08:29 <ugha_node> Too bad -F doesn't work with rm. 21:08:30 <duck> ugha_node: its bsd licensed; so fix it 21:08:41 <fvw> sounds sane to me :). Alas I uninstalled my last freebsd box a while back. I have accounts on other peoples' boxes though, and am willing to run testcases. 21:08:43 <ugha_node> duck: I might. :) 21:08:50 <duck> (damn BSD hippies) 21:09:09 <duck> oh, nice and short frank 21:09:17 <duck> mo libsam comments? 21:09:49 <duck> fvw: I guess Nightblade will contact you if he has a need 21:09:50 * fvw grumbles at perfectly sane unix behaviour for killing his irc client. 21:10:02 <duck> but since his email was a week old be might have found something 21:10:17 <mihi> fvw: ? 21:10:24 <fvw> yeah, if someone wanted to take me up on my offer I sort of missed that. Feel free to send email or something. 21:10:42 * duck hops to #2 21:10:46 <hypercubus> uhm, to where? ;-) 21:10:54 <duck> 2) browse i2p and normal web with one browser 21:10:57 <fvw> fresh install, haven't yet told my zsh not to hup stuff in the bacgrkground. </offtopic>

21:11:09 <fvw> hypercubus: I’m on the public mailinglist user list I think. fvw.i2p@var.cx 21:12:11 <duck> there was some stuff about adding all TLDs to your brower proxy ignore list 21:12:23 <fvw> does that require discussion? I think it was pretty much handled on the mailinglist. 21:12:24 <duck> I think it is a dirty hack 21:12:36 <fvw> yes, that was mentioned. Welcome back. 21:12:47 <duck> fvw: I didnt read the thread :) 21:13:12 <duck> okay, if you dont want to discuss it, move to #3 21:13:19 <duck> * 3) chat channel 21:13:23 <hypercubus> cervantes’ script works perfectly on Konqueror 3.2.2, Firefox 0.8, and Opera 7.51, all for Gentoo w/KDE 3.2.2 21:13:39 * mihi places a flag on #4 21:13:55 <duck> #i2p-chat is an alternative channel here for offtopic chat and light support 21:14:08 <duck> I dont know who did regg it 21:14:12 <hypercubus> i did 21:14:17 <duck> so better be careful :) 21:14:22 <fvw> ehm, there is no #4, just two #5’s :) 21:14:33 <hypercubus> i’ll be lucky if i can remember the password when i need it ;-) 21:14:33 <mihi> [22:27] -ChanServ- Channel: #i2p-chat 21:14:33 <mihi> [22:27] -ChanServ- Contact: hypercubus <<ONLINE>>

21:14:33 <mihi> [22:27] -ChanServ- Alternate: cervantes <<ONLINE>> 21:14:37 <mihi> [22:27] -ChanServ- Registered: 4 days (0h 2m 41s) ago 21:15:12 <hypercubus> i gave a few trusted peeps op powers for whenver i’m not around and there’s trouble 21:15:24 <duck> sounds good 21:15:39 <duck> it might be a bit overkill 21:15:51 <hypercubus> you never know on IRC ;-) 21:15:55 <duck> but after this protogirl did join here I thought it would be good to clean up this chan 21:16:03 <hypercubus> heh 21:16:27 <hypercubus> we’ll need it for sure sometime in the next few months anyhow 21:16:34 <duck> jups 21:16:48 <duck> and then the freenode ppl will kick us out 21:16:55 <hypercubus> ;-) 21:17:13 <duck> they dont like anything that isnt written in their kampf 21:17:16 <duck> err 21:17:44 * duck moves to $nextitem and triggers mihi’s breakpoint 21:17:47 <hypercubus> i figured tying the new channel in with support would legitimize it for freenode 21:18:47 <duck> hypercubus: you might be surprised 21:19:04 <hypercubus> cough i admittedly didn’t read all the policies… 21:19:24 <duck> it is russian roullete 21:19:39 <hypercubus> hmm, didn’t think it would be quite that dire 21:19:52 * duck is being negative 21:19:54 <hypercubus> well i’ll look into what we can do 21:20:09 <fvw> sorry, I must have missed something. Why would freenode kick us off? 21:20:21 * duck looks at the timeout counter for mihi’s breakpoint 21:20:32 <duck> fvw: they focus on development channels 21:20:35 <mihi> ? 21:20:53 <mihi> duck: the breakpoint triggers on /^4).*/ 21:21:01 <duck> mihi: but there is no #4 21:21:06 <fvw> so? i2p is soo alpha that right now even support is development. 21:21:11 <fvw> (and no, you may not quote me on that) 21:21:36 <duck> fvw: you might not be familiar with the types of discussion that did happen on IIP 21:21:38 <hypercubus> yeah but we have 2 channels for it 21:21:45 <duck> and which will likely happen in #i2p channels 21:22:04 <duck> I am pretty sure that freenode does not appreciate it. 21:22:10 <Nightblade> i’m here now 21:22:49 <hypercubus> we’ll donate a margarita machine to them or something 21:22:49 <mihi> duck: what do you refer to? the floods? or #cl? or what? 21:23:08 <fvw> discussions on IIP or discussions on #iip? I’ve never seen anything apart from devel and support on #iip. And discussions on IIP would move to I2P, not #i2p@freenode. 21:23:09 <duck> all kinds of non political correct talk 21:23:36 <fvw> there’s margarita machines? Ooh, me want. 21:23:54 <duck> oh well 21:24:38 <hypercubus> shall we revisit 2)? 21:24:58 <duck> hypercubus: what do you have to add about the browser proxy? 21:25:18 <hypercubus> oops, number 1… since nightblade just graced us with his presence ;-) 21:25:33 <duck> Nightblade: we took the freedom to ‘discuss’ libsam 21:25:42 <Nightblade> Ok, i’ll say a few lines 21:25:48 <hypercubus> but yeah i had something that wasn’t brought up on the list about the browser thing too now that i think about it 21:25:56 <duck> Nightblade: fvw told us that he might be able to help with some freebsd testing 21:26:20 <fvw> I don’t have a freebsd machine anymore but I have accounts on freebsd machines, give me test cases and I’d be happy to run them. 21:27:02 <Nightblade> I have started working on a C++ dht, which uses Libsam (C). At this point I have not gotten especially far although I’ve been working a lot on it. right now nodes in the dht can “ping” each other through a sam data message 21:27:09 <Nightblade> in the process i found a couple minor bugs in libsam 21:27:18 <Nightblade> which i will post a new version of sometime in the future 21:27:51 <ugha_node> Nightblade: Could you please remove those ‘strstr’ calls from libsam? :) 21:27:52 <Nightblade> the test case is: try to compile it and report the errors to me 21:28:01 <Nightblade> what is wrong with strstr 21:28:21 <ugha_node> It’s not meant to be used instead of strcmp. 21:28:38 <Nightblade> oh yeah, also I am going to port libsam to windows, but that is not in any near future 21:29:07 <Nightblade> is there anything wrong with the way i am using it, besides aesthetics? 21:29:15 <Nightblade> you can send me changes or tell me what you’d rather do 21:29:19 <Nightblade> that just seemed the easiest way 21:29:21 <ugha_node> Nightblade: I didn’t notice any. 21:29:32 <fvw> strcmp is more efficient than strstr ofcourse. 21:29:36 <ugha_node> But I just skimmed through it. 21:30:20 <ugha_node> fvw: You can occasionally exploit stuff which uses strstr instead of strcmp, but that’s not the case. 21:31:22 <Nightblade> yeah now i see some places where i can change it 21:31:28 <fvw> that too, but I’m assuming you’d have noted that. Well, actually, you’d have to use strncmp to prevent those exploits. But that’s besides the point. 21:31:31 <Nightblade> i don’t remember why i did it that way 21:31:57 <ugha_node> fvw: I agree. 21:32:27 <Nightblade> oh now i remember why 21:32:40 <Nightblade> it is a lazy way of not having to figure the length for strncmp 21:32:49 <duck> heh 21:32:52 <ugha_node> Nightblade: Heheh. 21:33:01 <fvw> use min(strlen(foo), sizeof(*foo)) 21:33:04 <hypercubus> shall the spanking commence? 21:33:15 <fvw> I thought the oral sex came first? ducks 21:33:32 <fvw> right, next point I think. Hypercube had a comment about proxying? 21:33:38 <hypercubus> heh 21:33:54 <duck> bring it on! 21:34:03 <Nightblade> i will make the changes for the next version - change some of them at least 21:34:25 <hypercubus> ok, well this had been discussed briefly in channel a few weeks back, but i think it bears revisiting 21:34:48 <deer> * Sugadude volunteers to perform the oral sex. 21:34:59 <hypercubus> rather than adding TLD’s to your browser’s block list, or using the proxy script, there’s a third way 21:35:29 <hypercubus> which shouldn’t have the same drawbacks as the other two approaches anonymity-wise 21:36:17 <fvw> which I’ll tell you for the cheap cheap price of $29.99? Spill it already! 21:36:27 <hypercubus> and that would be to have the eeproxy re-write incoming html pages to embed the page in a frameset… 21:36:58 <hypercubus> the main frame would contain the requested HTTP content, the other frame would serve as a control bar 21:37:13 <hypercubus> and would allow you to turn on/off proxying at will 21:37:40 <hypercubus> and will also alert you, perhaps via colored borders or some other kind of alert, that you’re browsing non-anonymously 21:37:54 <fvw> how are you going to prevent an i2p site (with javascript etc) from turning off anonimity? 21:37:59 * duck tries to apply jrandom-skill-level-of tolerance 21:37:59 <hypercubus> or that a link in an eepsite page leads to the RealWeb(tm) 21:38:04 <duck> cool! make it! 21:38:16 <fvw> you’ll still have to do something fproxy-like, or make something non-browser-controlled for switching. 21:38:29 <ugha_node> fvw: Right. 21:39:10 <hypercubus> that’s why i’m throwing this out here again, perhaps someone might have some ideas about how to secure this 21:39:31 <hypercubus> but imo this is something that will be sorely needed for most i2p end usrers 21:39:33 <hypercubus> *users 21:40:04 <hypercubus> because the TLD/proxy script/dedicated browser approaches are too much to ask of your general net user 21:40:29 <fvw> In the long run, I think an fproxy workalike is the best idea. But that’s definately not a priority imho, and I don’t actually think browsing sites will be the i2p killer app. 21:40:42 <Sonium> What is the netDb anyway? 21:40:59 <duck> Sonium: database of known routers 21:41:10 <hypercubus> fproxy is too cumbersome for most users 21:41:32 <Sonium> doesn’t such a database compromise annonymity? 21:41:39 <hypercubus> imo it’s part of the reason freenet never caught on in the non-dev community 21:41:41 <fvw> hypercube: not necessarily. proxy autoconfiguragion (“pac”) can make it as simple as filling in a single value in your browser config. I think we shouldn’t underestimate the fact that in the foreseeable future, all the i2p users will be at least slightly clueful computer-wise. (all evidence on freenet-support notwithstanding) 21:42:00 <ugha_node> Sonium: No, ‘bad guys’ could collect that information manually anyway. 21:42:21 <Sonium> but if NetDb is down i2p is down, right? 21:42:29 <fvw> hypercubus: Not really, I think the fact that it hasn’t worked at all since early 0.5 is more to blame for that. </offtopic time=“once again”>

21:42:44 <fvw> Sonium: you can have more than one netdb (anyone can run one) 21:42:58 <hypercubus> we already have pac, and even though it works spectacularly from a tech standpoint, realistically it’s not going to protect the anonymity of the avg. jog 21:43:03 <hypercubus> avg. joe 21:43:22 <ugha_node> fvw: Err.. Every router has its own netDb. 21:43:42 <duck> ok. I am about to pass out. be sure to baff the meeting closed after you are done 21:43:52 <ugha_node> I2P has no central dependencies anymore. 21:44:07 <hypercubus> ok, well i just wanted to get this idea formally in the logs ;-) 21:44:30 <fvw> ugha_node: ok, a published netdb then. I don’t actually run a node (yet), I’m not entirely up with the terminology. 21:44:34 <ugha_node> Hmm. Didn’t mihi want to say something? 21:45:05 * fvw feeds duck coffee-flavoured chocolate to keep him up and running a little bit longer. 21:45:07 <mihi> no :) 21:45:21 <mihi> is duck a network device? ;) 21:45:25 <ugha_node> mihi: Btw, are you going to take the window size increase bounty? 21:45:28 * fvw feeds duck alcohol-flavoured chocolate to shut him down indefinately. 21:45:30 <hypercubus> in swedish 21:45:52 <mihi> ugha_node: what bounty? 21:46:00 <hypercubus> okay, then on to 5), rant-a-rama? ;-) 21:46:13 <ugha_node> mihi: http://www.i2p.net/node/view/224 21:46:27 * duck eats some of fvw’s chocolate 21:47:16 <mihi> ugha_node: definitely no; sorry 21:47:36 <ugha_node> mihi: Uh, okay. :( 21:48:33 * mihi tried to hack up the “old” streaming api some time ago, but that one was too buggy… 21:48:53 <mihi> but it would imho be easier to fix that one instead of fixing mine… 21:49:21 <ugha_node> Heh. 21:49:42 <hypercubus> so modest 21:49:46 <mihi> since it already has some (broken) “reordering” support in it 21:50:49 <Sonium> is there a way to ask deer how many people are on the i2p-#i2p channel? 21:51:01 <duck> no 21:51:08 <hypercubus> nope, but i can add that to bogobot 21:51:08 <Sonium> :/ 21:51:11 <Nightblade> !list 21:51:13 <deer> <duck> 10 ppl 21:51:13 <hypercubus> after i finish the installer ;-) 21:51:24 <Sonium> !list 21:51:32 <Sonium> o_O 21:51:35 <mihi> Sonium ;) 21:51:38 <ugha_node> This is not an fserv channel! 21:51:39 <Sonium> that was a trick! 21:51:40 <ugha_node> :) 21:51:41 <hypercubus> should be !who 21:51:44 <deer> <duck> ant duck identiguy Pseudonym ugha2p bogobot hirvox jrandom Sugadude unknown 21:51:48 <cervantes> oop missed the meeting 21:51:57 <ugha_node> !list 21:52:01 <Nightblade> !who 21:52:11 <deer> <duck> !who-your-mom 21:52:17 <mihi> !who !has !the !list ? 21:52:21 <fvw> !yesletsallspamthechannelwithinoperativecommands 21:52:33 <Nightblade> !ban fvw!@* 21:52:42 <mihi> !ban !@* 21:52:50 <hypercubus> i sense a gavel coming down 21:52:51 <duck> sounds like a good time to close it down 21:52:55 <Sonium> btw, you should also implement an !8 command like chanserv has 21:52:59 <fvw> right, now we have that settled, let’s clo.. yes. that. 21:53:00 * hypercubus is psychic 21:53:05 <duck> BAFF 21:53:11 <Nightblade> !baff 21:53:12 <hypercubus> my hair, my hair 21:53:24 * fvw points at hypercube and laughs. Your hair! Your hair!