I2P Dev Meeting - August 24, 2004

14:01 <jrandom> 0) hi 14:01 <jrandom> 1) 0.3.4.3 status 14:01 <jrandom> 1.1) timestamper 14:02 <jrandom> 1.2) new router console authentication 14:02 <jrandom> 2) 0.4 status 14:02 <jrandom> 2.1) service & systray integration 14:02 <jrandom> 2.2) jbigi & jcpuid 14:02 <jrandom> 2.3) i2paddresshelper 14:02 <jrandom> 3) AMOC vs. restricted routes 14:02 <jrandom> 4) stasher 14:02 <jrandom> 5) pages of note 14:02 <jrandom> 6) ??? 14:02 <jrandom> 0) hi 14:02 * jrandom waves 14:02 <deer> <ugha2p> Hi. 14:02 <jrandom> weekly notes posted (waaay early) at http://dev.i2p.net/pipermail/i2p/2004-August/000419.html 14:03 <jrandom> so i expect you've all done your homework and have read them diligently 14:03 <jrandom> (or something) 14:03 <jrandom> ok, 1) 0.3.4.3 status 14:04 <kaji> (late hi) 14:04 <jrandom> there are a few things adjusted since the 0.3.4.3 release came out last friday, but overall the rev seems pretty stable, from what i can tell 14:04 <deer> <luckypunk> huh. whats going on? 14:04 <deer> <luckypunk> Oh. Nm. sorry, i usually sleep thorugh the meeting though. Hi :) 14:05 <jrandom> what are people's experiences with 0.3.4.3 with regards to eepsites / squid / etc? 14:05 <luckypunk> very quick. 14:05 <jrandom> (i can tell what people are seeing with irc) 14:05 <luckypunk> Under 3 seconds page loading sometimes. 14:06 <deer> <oOo> Jrandom do kick squid's router too often ;) 14:06 <jrandom> cool lucky 14:06 <deer> <mule> working well 14:06 <luckypunk> i can open up 10 pages of things through the squid and I2P keeps up, pretty slowly though, on my 350 mhz. 14:06 <deer> <hypercubus> snappiest it's ever been 14:06 <jrandom> yeah, i do oOo, but thats why we have www1.squid.i2p :) 14:06 <jrandom> r0x0r 14:06 <jrandom> i've heard a few reports of excessive CPU usage - is that hitting people often? 14:07 <deer> <hypercubus> not i... i suspect it's just the people with 386s *cough*lucky*cough* 14:07 <deer> <oOo> Some very rare peaks here. Related to another erro, I might trace it back one day :p 14:07 <deer> <mule> not here 14:07 <luckypunk> I think, if its affecting all platforms and stuff, i would feel it hard, and no not really. Only when its serving the new config pages or downloading a lot of stuff does I2P pin my processor. 14:08 <jrandom> ok cool. there are a few scenarios where i2p will be a bitch wrt CPU, but hopefully those are few and far between 14:08 <jrandom> actually, that leads us in to 1.1) timestamper :) 14:09 <jrandom> (one of the problems can occur when the timestamper gets goofy / loses track of the correct time) 14:10 <jrandom> the whole timestamping stuff has been revamped and integrated into the router, thanks to Adam Buckley being kickass and releasing his work under the BSD license 14:10 <jrandom> (yay Adam) 14:11 <jrandom> we had previously used the SNTP code as a standalone client app, but we are not doing that anymore - instead we have a tight integration with the router 14:11 <jrandom> (so people may need to update their config files as mentioned in the email) 14:11 <jrandom> SNTP alone is only a part of the solution though 14:12 <jrandom> long term we need some better (read: NTP) synchronization, as SNTP is prone to flux 14:12 <jrandom> (especially in light of high network congestion) 14:12 <jrandom> Adam sent me some code he has for dealing with it, but i dont really have the time to work through that side of things atm 14:13 <deer> <oOo> Using SNTP only ? 14:13 <jrandom> i dont recall - i think it may be ntp-esque via sntp queries 14:13 <deer> <oOo> Ok, thanks 14:14 <luckypunk> uh 14:14 <luckypunk> i have a suggestion about that.. 14:14 <jrandom> anyway, if anyone ever feels bored and wants to do some crazy ntp hacking, that'd Rule 14:14 <luckypunk> Maybe it's wrong though. 14:14 <jrandom> mmhmm lucky? 14:14 <luckypunk> use ntpdate -q 14:14 <luckypunk> get the offset. 14:14 <jrandom> ntpdate -q == SNTP 14:14 <luckypunk> or something similar. 14:14 <deer> <oOo> That is what the current code do, more or less ;) 14:14 * cervantes catches up what he's mised 14:14 <luckypunk> oh. 14:15 <luckypunk> sorry. 14:15 <cervantes> missed 14:15 <deer> <oOo> But we need variable seconds length & co ;) 14:15 <cervantes> cpu usuage on my system is the lowest it's ever been.... 14:15 <jrandom> nice 14:15 <cervantes> but I've got 700 odd java threads now and rising 14:15 <jrandom> yeah oOo, and the skew detection / candidate selection 14:16 <luckypunk> yes, last time i ran it, about a month ago, it seriously affected my usability of my box, now i don't even notice if I2P is running. 14:16 <jrandom> yeah i've been looking into that cervantes 14:16 <deer> <oOo> True, even if it's a weak part of the whole stuff ;) 14:16 <luckypunk> i have about 200 threads. 14:16 <luckypunk> 219, to be precise. 14:16 <jrandom> cervantes: i've tracked down the threads to the transport layer (we do some *uuugly* stuff to get timeouts), and we can do some better cleanup later 14:16 -!- TheCrypto__ is now known as thecrypto 14:18 <jrandom> basically some oddities are occurring with the increased # of peers on the network & the churn. all workable, but it can be annoying 14:18 <jrandom> anyway, thats it for 1.1, now 1.2) new router console authentication :) 14:19 <jrandom> (no one probably cares about this, but we have basic http authentication working. see the email for more info) 14:19 <cervantes> cool 14:19 <cervantes> despite that though the memory handling rocks... haven't had an oom in ages 14:19 <jrandom> ah wikked 14:20 <jrandom> actually, that gets us towards 2) 0.4 status 14:22 <luckypunk> Yes. If I2P were a MS product, we'd be ready for 1.0 :) 14:22 <jrandom> arggg, damn net connection dropped 14:22 <jrandom> (screen++) 14:23 <jrandom> ok, anyway, there has been a lot going on, and there are still a few more back end things left to do (some client tunnel pool management, as oOo is seeing, and some peer selection testing, as is in cvs) 14:24 <jrandom> there's also been a lot of progress on the installer / service / systray side of things 14:24 <jrandom> hypercubus: want to give us an update? 14:24 <deer> <hypercubus> sure 14:25 <deer> <hypercubus> the service wrapper installation is nearing completion, perhaps today or tomorrow... the service wrapper takes care of OOMs by automatically restarting the i2p router 14:25 <jrandom> (yay) 14:25 <deer> <hypercubus> so it covers our butts there somewhat 14:26 <deer> <hypercubus> systray integration is complete and works great... it's only for Win32 currently, since the systray4j lib seems to have some bugs in its KDE implementation 14:26 <deer> <hypercubus> i'll be tracking the KDE progress and hopefully we'll have that in the near future 14:27 <deer> <hypercubus> the installer is almost complete as well, all that remains to be added are post-installation tasks 14:27 <deer> <hypercubus> i expect that will be done by the weekend 14:27 <deer> <hypercubus> (as it depends on the complete integration of the service wrapper) 14:28 <jrandom> r0x0r 14:28 <deer> <hypercubus> i'll be making available a pre-0.4 installer package for people to test 14:28 <deer> <hypercubus> so i will let you all know when that's ready 14:28 <luckypunk> What about GNOME? 14:28 <cervantes> increment(hypercubus) 14:28 <deer> <hypercubus> the systray4j project hasn't taken on gnome yet 14:29 <deer> <hypercubus> we'll be adding additional desktop environments as becomes available with systray4j 14:29 <luckypunk> well, no biggie, i'mm gonna switch once/if KDE compiles. 14:30 <deer> <hypercubus> the systray icon is only for launching the router console in your browser anyhow 14:30 <deer> <hypercubus> so its main use will be by windows users ;-) 14:30 <jrandom> yeah, we expect *nix users to know how to bookmark ;) 14:30 <deer> <hypercubus> but we will of course cater to the lazy *nix users when we can ;-) 14:30 <deer> <oOo> N/C... 14:30 <luckypunk> Oh, I have a link in my firefox link hings like, with slashdot and BSD Google. 14:31 <deer> <hypercubus> but the icon does also serve as a convenient status indicator 14:31 <jrandom> agreed 14:31 <deer> <hypercubus> i.e. if the icon is gone, your router is gone too ;-) 14:31 <deer> <hypercubus> unless of course you chose to hide the icon from your router console 14:32 <deer> <hypercubus> which you can do, and it works great 14:32 <deer> <hypercubus> ok, i think that's all, unless there are any questions 14:33 <protok0l> whats a good PDA that runs linux well? 14:33 <jrandom> word hyper 14:33 <jrandom> proto: #i2p-chat (or after the meeting) 14:33 <protok0l> oops 14:33 <deer> <hypercubus> *snicker* 14:33 <jrandom> ok, movin' on to 2.2) jbigi & jcpuid 14:34 <jrandom> iakin has put together some kickass JNI/asm code to detect the exact CPU architecture used (on x86 boxen), and he has jbigi rigged up for freenet to auto-select the right .so/.dll based on that 14:35 <jrandom> he has also released that work into the public domain, and we've snagged a copy and integrated it back into i2p 14:35 <luckypunk> So we won't have to chose which jbigi to download? Won't that make the install somewhat larger? 14:35 <jrandom> correct 14:35 <jrandom> yeah, it adds a few hundred KB 14:36 <jrandom> but, well, the new install is, um, larger than the old one 14:36 <luckypunk> oh, i thought it would be more than a few hundred kb. 14:36 <luckypunk> Yea, between the new console...I'm guessing 6 - 10 mb? 14:36 <deer> * Myo9 has only got 99 mb left on this drive. 14:36 <deer> <Myo9> ;) 14:36 <jrandom> (especially since i'm being an ass and insisting on .war support rather than direct servlets, requiring xerces, which weighs in at 800KB) 14:36 <jrandom> the new install is looking ~4-6MB 14:37 <jrandom> but the good thing is, only ~1MB of that is i2p specific, so updates will be lightweight ;) 14:38 <deer> <Myo9> I2P hasn't got much publication has it? 14:38 <deer> <Myo9> Compared to freenet and TOR? 14:38 <jrandom> correct, we're staying fairly quiet 14:38 <protok0l> is download size a real consern? most people have broadband 14:38 <protok0l> i'm use it if it were 100megs 14:38 <luckypunk> protok0l, most people don't, actually. Most people that'd use I2P do. though i think I2P still supports dialup (sort of) 14:38 <deer> <mule> for i2p users it shouldn't 14:39 <jrandom> in my view, the development effort is best served with gradual adoption after sufficient testing goes on at different crititcal points 14:39 <luckypunk> yes. I2P isn't ready for 500 slashdot users :) 14:39 <jrandom> though our recent growth has been good, helping to poke different parts of the system 14:40 <jrandom> as we launch the 0.4 rev, we will want to move towards the 100-router mark 14:40 <deer> <mule> ok, i'll set up another 50 :) 14:40 <jrandom> plus, that'll give more incentive for client app devs to build client apps ;) 14:40 <jrandom> lol mule :) 14:41 <deer> <ugha2p> Arr. 14:41 <cervantes> at the rate of adoption we could probably reach 100 in about a month 14:41 <cervantes> without evangelising 14:41 <jrandom> that would be a good rate of growth 14:42 <jrandom> but anyway, back to the agenda :) 14:42 <protok0l> i cant wait to evangelize 14:42 <jrandom> jbigi + jcpuid == integrated (and see the mailing list if you want to run CVS HEAD) :) 14:42 <jrandom> heh we can tell proto ;) 14:42 <deer> <hypercubus> lucky: more than half of US internet users have broadband... report was released the other day 14:43 <jrandom> and less than 1/10th of the world is in the us ;) 14:43 <deer> <oOo> Who mind about the USA ? ^^ 14:43 <jrandom> but moving on to 2.3) i2paddresshelper 14:44 <jrandom> oOo has put together yet another patch, this one letting people hit eepsites with linked pages without editing hosts.txt 14:45 <jrandom> the details are listed in the weekly status notes 14:45 <jrandom> oOo - is there anything you want to add? 14:45 <deer> <oOo> Hum... Let's the eepsites number grow fast and Cervantes add his promised support :p 14:46 <jrandom> ah, cervantes has already added the "Try it [i2p]" link :) 14:46 <jrandom> (only people on CVS HEAD can use it, until 0.4 is out) 14:46 <cervantes> :o) 14:46 <jrandom> ((works great, btw)) 14:46 <deer> <oOo> Great ^^ Will play with it as soon as I manage to get my router back online ;) 14:47 <kaji> you could password the client download and roll it gmail style 14:47 <jrandom> hmm? 14:48 <kaji> small base + invitation only 14:48 <kaji> but that would take work 14:48 <jrandom> oh, for 0.4 release? 14:48 <kaji> oh, for the 1.0 14:48 <jrandom> no, not worth the effort atm. if we get flooded with new users we may want to look at using certificates, etc 14:48 <deer> <oOo> 1.0 is for mass audience :p 14:49 <jrandom> well, for 1.0 we're going to be up past the 1000 user mark already 14:49 <jrandom> (at least, thats my hope ;) 14:49 * kaji thinks it would be fun to watch i2p go from 50 to 5000 node in 3 hours 14:49 <jrandom> heh 14:49 <deer> <oOo> And then down to 100 ;) 14:49 <luckypunk> hypercubus, whoo hoo for americans! they're catching up ;) 14:49 <jrandom> heh, thats one way to test churn ;) 14:50 <cervantes> if aum gets stasher working...and hyper increases his goatse library then you'll see it jump 50 to 5000 is less than 3 hours ;-) 14:50 <kaji> and then 50100 as the nsa brings their node onlin 14:50 <jrandom> actually that kind of brings us forward to 3) AMOC vs. restricted routes 14:51 <jrandom> one of the interesting aspects of restricted routes is the ability to mount a 'sybil' attack really, really, really easily. 14:51 <jrandom> while mule was just mentioning a few minutes ago installing 50 new nodes, it'd be possible to bring online a significant number 14:52 <jrandom> one of the ways to address this is through a certificate authority, limiting the introduction of new routerIdentity certificates 14:52 <jrandom> another is through hashcash 14:52 <jrandom> another is through morphmix/tarzan style ip prefix detection 14:53 <jrandom> but, yet another is to say "fuck it" and hope we get sufficient 'good' peers to outnumber the 'bad' ones 14:53 <fvw> I think that's ok for the time being yes. 14:54 <protok0l> heres an idea 14:54 <jrandom> yeah, its the simplest thing to do, and adding artificial barriers to join a p2p network at this stage seems... foolish 14:54 <fvw> I think perhaps a mix of hashcash and ip-based would be nice to have for 1.0, but all in all you can't defend against a powerful enough adversary. 14:54 <protok0l> cut off the inital noderef access 14:54 <protok0l> if someone wants on, we can give them your noderefs 14:54 <protok0l> *uor 14:54 <fvw> and how would that help? 14:55 <jrandom> right fvw, and we might be able to put it off until after 1.0, as well 14:55 <fvw> depends on your definition of 1.0 :) 14:55 <jrandom> proto: i'm not sure that'd help much 14:55 <jrandom> heh fvw, we're not like freenet ;) 14:56 <jrandom> 1.0 == functional, secure, [sufficiently] anonymous, and scalable 14:56 <deer> <oOo> and well documented ;) 14:56 <jrandom> documentation is a prerequisite to secure :) 14:56 <deer> <Myo9> Are all users added to the noderef at the moment? 14:57 <jrandom> Myo9: yes - http://dev.i2p.net/i2pdb/ is just a link into one of my router's netDb/ dir 14:57 <jrandom> (so it will list everyone my router has a reference for, at any time) 14:58 <jrandom> ((and everyone has a ref for people they talk to, which, at our current scale, is everyone)) 14:58 <jrandom> ok, but back to 3) AMOC vs. restricted routes 14:59 <deer> <Myo9> Ok. 14:59 <jrandom> as mentioned in the email, mule's ideas might be able to get us to drop the 0.4.2 AMOC transport and instead implement basic restricted route support, treating people behind NATs/firewalls as simply being behind a restricted route 15:00 <fvw> it would be kind of cool 15:00 <jrandom> yeah, and save us from writing yet another transport protocol 15:01 <deer> <ugha2p> But how would make performing sybil attack that much easier? 15:01 <jrandom> s/writing/designing,implementing,reviewing,debugging,deploying,debugging,debugging,debugging,debugging.../ 15:01 <deer> <ugha2p> how would it make* 15:02 <jrandom> ugha2p: there is no way to tell how many *real* routers are behind a restricted route - all we know about them is that they have a unique router identity and are reachable through a certain router 15:02 <deer> <ugha2p> Ah. 15:03 <jrandom> that certain router could in fact be one sim instance, running 100 other routers in the same JVM, each pretending to be behind firwalls 15:03 <deer> <ugha2p> Right. 15:03 <deer> <oOo> They could as easily been using 100 ports on the same host... 15:03 <fvw> however assuming you're willing to spend a few 100 euros on your attack, you can get a large number of spread out IPs anyway. 15:03 <jrandom> agreed fvw 15:04 <jrandom> oOo: true, though ports cost memory (and some CPU) 15:04 <deer> <ugha2p> I don't think that presumption is going to stop more powerful enemies though. 15:04 <jrandom> (which is why when i do larger sims, i need to switch from the TCP comm system to the VM comm system) 15:04 <jrandom> agreed ugha2p 15:04 <jrandom> it just makes it easier 15:05 <fvw> I think we're going to have to assume that anybody with more than a bored-sunday-afternoon desire to attack the system is going to be able to get at least 10^3 nodes on the network easy. 15:05 <deer> <oOo> Not *that* much 15:05 <jrandom> right fvw 15:05 <deer> <oOo> (+ easier) 15:05 <fvw> and at that order of magnitude, nothing apart from central certification is going to stop them. 15:06 <deer> <ugha2p> 100 open ports on one single host would be trivial to detect, but 100 restricted routes behind a machine might not be. 15:06 <jrandom> well, thats open to debate fvw, but yeah, sybil is a bitch 15:06 <deer> <oOo> 100 zombies are tricky to detect ;) 15:06 <fvw> which means we ideally need a 10^4 network. 15:06 <jrandom> definitely oOo 15:06 <fvw> (loose estimates) 15:07 <deer> <ugha2p> We'll ideally have a 10^4+ network. 15:07 <jrandom> fvw: i'd go higher than that - imho we need to grow this into the millions 15:07 <deer> <oOo> Ideally would be more then half available IPs ;) 15:07 <jrandom> heh oOo 15:07 <fvw> It'd be nice if we could yeah. 15:08 <jrandom> (but, of course, to grow it into hte millions we need sufficient reason to do so. i think we will be able to make the case for that eventually though) 15:08 <deer> <ugha2p> I'm not sure if Kademlia could be held in one piece for that long. ;) 15:08 <fvw> at which point beating people up would definately become the low-cost attack. Which, unintuitively enough, would be a good thing. 15:08 <jrandom> heh 15:08 <deer> <DrWoo> jrandom: millions would need serious useability and benefit 15:09 <jrandom> agreed DrWoo 15:09 <fvw> luckily, a lot of (non-nice) people are working very hard on that now. 15:09 <deer> <oOo> Pr0n for masses :p 15:10 <deer> <jrandom> which is why imho we need a kickass filesharing app 15:10 <deer> <oOo> "One human, One goatse", which lead us to stasher :p 15:10 <cervantes> download->install->share musi 15:10 <deer> <DrWoo> jrandom: it would have to be order of an anonymous kazza, luckily the motivation is being taken care of by the RIAA & co. 15:10 <fvw> pr0n is already easy to get (see usenet and such). I think big record company assocs and such are going to crack down a lot harder on p2p than pornographers ever could. 15:10 <cervantes> music 15:10 <fvw> but once again we drift offtopic. 15:11 <fvw> "4) stasher"? 15:11 <deer> <oOo> Yeah ! 4) ! 15:11 <jrandom> agreed - we can all think up some reasons to justify use, but first we need to get it *working* :) 15:11 <cervantes> ah for once a non-tenuous link into the next item 15:11 <jrandom> movin' to 4) stasher 15:12 <jrandom> aum: you awake yet? 15:12 * hypercubus chants auuuuuummmmmmmmm 15:12 <jrandom> well, in case he isn't, i know he's been doing a lot of work on adding CHK and SVK support to stasher 15:13 <jrandom> which is Cool 15:13 <deer> <oOo> And splitfiles 15:13 <jrandom> yeah, the splitfile support is interesting 15:13 <fvw> in the 'interesting times' sense? 15:14 <jrandom> thats one of the differences between freenet and stasher, in that stasher already has a fixed 31KB max size per key 15:14 <deer> <oOo> "Useful, great, don't need anything from user application" 15:14 <jrandom> (since afaik stasher uses SAM datagrams) 15:14 <luckypunk> can't you impliment lik..split files? 15:15 <jrandom> ooohhh! i just realized what bug he was running into wrt reliability! 15:15 <jrandom> (fixed the other day in cvs, significantly killing the bug) 15:15 <jrandom> yeah lucky 15:15 <jrandom> but the splitfile implementation is inherently different from how freenet splitfiles work, due to max keysize limitations 15:15 <deer> <oOo> So Stasher over-I2P just be healthy again ? ^^ 15:16 <jrandom> (if you read freenet devl or tech lately, you'll hear toad and hobx talking it over) 15:16 <deer> <oOo> *should 15:16 <jrandom> oOo: with HEAD, yeah 15:16 * jrandom hasnt heard any reports of people even trying it since 0.3.4.3 came out (or was it 0.3.4.2) 15:16 <jrandom> but anyway, he is planning on another new test build by end of the week 15:17 <jrandom> anyone have anything to mention / discuss wrt stasher? 15:17 <jrandom> (other than yay! go aum!) 15:18 <deer> <oOo> Yeah, there is an urge to find non-goatse contents there ;) 15:18 <jrandom> heh 15:18 <deer> <oOo> ex-Freeneter, start your engines ;) 15:18 <jrandom> yeah splitfile support should definitely help with that, as would ssk & fcp support 15:19 <fvw> I'd like to second the 'go aum!' if I may. 15:19 <deer> <oOo> yay ! 15:19 <jrandom> motion is seconded, and thirded :) 15:19 <jrandom> ok, swingin' forward to 5) pages of note 15:20 <jrandom> i just wanted to point out three new pages 15:20 <jrandom> DrWoo's safe browsing guide gives a pretty good rundown on the dangers of eepsites & the outproxies 15:20 <jrandom> the problems can be addressed in code, but we just havent had time to do it yet, so its Good to be informed 15:21 <jrandom> lucky has also put together a good doc on the freebsd+java side of things as well 15:21 * jrandom hasnt tried too many jvms on fbsd, just kaffe, so nag him if you have questions :) 15:22 <jrandom> hyper has also put together the doc for upgrading to the 0.4 dev code, which he'll likely be updating once we want more people to test it ;) 15:22 <hypercubus> my post on the forum covers installation of the service wrapper... the howto for the new router console is here --> http://files.hypercubus.i2p/New_I2P_Router_Console_Howto.txt 15:23 <jrandom> wr0d 15:23 <jrandom> oh, there's also a new pretty picture & some new text @ http://www.i2p.net/how_intro (hopefully making things a bit more clear) 15:24 <fvw> ooh, that looks pretty. Who did that? Good work. 15:25 <hypercubus> it was actually copied directly from a crop circle 15:25 * fvw tries not to mention the resemblence between jrandom and Dave but fails miserably. 15:25 <jrandom> heh 15:25 <fvw> ah, that explains jrandom's feelers. 15:25 <jrandom> the pic was beautified by our anonymous designer 15:25 <jrandom> (thankfully so, my ms paint skills suck :) 15:26 <hypercubus> we're still trying to decipher the significane of Charlie's long chin 15:26 <deer> <ugha2p> Arr, this sucks. 15:26 <jrandom> how about alice's skewed eyes? ;) 15:26 <hypercubus> heh 15:26 <deer> <jrandom> yeah, it'll be nice when we get irc.duck.i2p upgraded (if it hasnt been already..) 15:27 <fvw> never mind that, she looks like she's doing a double alien-bursting-from-stomach-scene with her cheeks. 15:27 <jrandom> lol 15:27 <jrandom> *thats* why she is talking to dave 15:27 <jrandom> well, anyway, i think this leads us to 6) ??? 15:27 <fvw> haha 15:27 <jrandom> anyone have anything they want to bring up? 15:28 <deer> <oOo> Can't you build the skeleton of certificates' stuff in I2P and let *others* fill it and have fun ? (Or his this already done ? :p) 15:28 <deer> <oOo> Or is this absolutely useless ? 15:28 <deer> <oOo> (for now) 15:28 <jrandom> hmm? 15:28 <jrandom> the hashcash / etc certificate stuff? 15:28 <deer> <oOo> Ok, nevermind ^^ 15:28 <deer> <oOo> Yes 15:29 <jrandom> ok yes, we already have the infrastructure for that 15:29 <jrandom> (though things like libSAM will need to be modified to interpret the destination properly, since iirc nightblade assumed 384bytes always ;) 15:30 <jrandom> but the router will handle different types of certificates transparently 15:30 <deer> <oOo> The code is ready for this ? Just missing some 'content' ? 15:31 <jrandom> yes - the RouterIdentity created currently always attaches a NullCertificate (certificate type == 0) 15:31 <jrandom> if it attaches another type, another type of certificate is attached 15:31 <jrandom> e.g. hashcash cert, CA signed cert, etc 15:31 <jrandom> verification infrastructure is there as well (RouterInfo.verify) 15:32 <deer> <oOo> Oh, great :) 15:32 <deer> <oOo> So someone may play with this code and adding hashcash and stuff in advance ? 15:32 <jrandom> if we had a flash flood i could probably lock down the net in a day or two 15:32 <jrandom> right 15:33 <jrandom> (though i think fvw is right in that it wont be pressing for at least a little while) 15:33 <deer> <oOo> Ok. I don't volunteer ;) But someone might :p 15:33 <Nightblade> on i2p.net, the aug 24 meeting log link is pointed at the aug 17 log 15:33 <jrandom> right, sorry, meeting isn't over yet :) 15:33 <Nightblade> oh haha 15:34 <jrandom> so, anyone have anything else they want to bring up? :) 15:34 <hypercubus> new rule... whoever edits the website: no smokin' the funny stuff while editing! 15:34 <jrandom> uh oh... 15:34 <jrandom> what'd i do? 15:34 <hypercubus> i was referring to broken links ;-) 15:34 <jrandom> oh 15:35 <hypercubus> we need a full time web editor... i nominate lucky 15:35 <jrandom> well, yeah, i updated the link to this weeks weekly status notes before the meeting, in case anyone went to the page ;) 15:35 <jrandom> we certainly do need someone to keep track of the web site and poke people when things are funky 15:36 <luckypunk> me? web enditor? 15:36 <luckypunk> enditor haha 15:36 <luckypunk> i dunno 15:36 <Nightblade> spelchek reqwired 15:36 <luckypunk> i'll probably be pretyt busy once school start.s 15:36 <jrandom> bah, drop out! work on i2p fulltime! 15:36 <luckypunk> if i drop out 15:37 <luckypunk> my parents will make me get a job 15:37 <deer> <hypercubus> excuses excuses ;-) 15:37 <luckypunk> and i'm still busy 15:37 <deer> <hypercubus> amen 15:37 <deer> * oOo will happily renovate the English used on the website ;) 15:37 <luckypunk> anyway, i don't think i'm gonna be allowed to drop out 15:38 <luckypunk> they're raising the legal dropout age to 18 15:38 <luckypunk> or high school diploma 15:38 <luckypunk> whatever comes first. (usually the latter) 15:38 <hypercubus> er 15:38 <Nightblade> haha "legal dropout age" - what will they come up with next? 15:38 <luckypunk> it's 16 now. 15:38 <luckypunk> You can't leave school before that, else they'll arrest you. 15:38 <jrandom> actually, thats a good point.. as we move towards 1.0 it'd be good to offer different translations of various pages 15:39 * luckypunk can make a vague translation intro french, if absolutely required. 15:39 <Nightblade> I'll do the Klingon and Ebonics translations 15:39 <deer> <oOo> Yeah, Klingon translation of the website :p 15:39 <hypercubus> yes, we can offer English, B0rk, and oOo-fried English 15:39 <deer> <oOo> Damned, same idea>< 15:39 <Nightblade> ooo, a mindreader 15:39 <luckypunk> (with the theory that babelfish aided with a human is better than no translation at all.) 15:39 <jrandom> i think we might be able to scam jar into updating his French translation lucky, but thanks ;) 15:39 <deer> <oOo> hyper: will gladly for free like in beer :p 15:40 <jrandom> thats actually one of the big things post 0.4 - getting the docs solid 15:40 <luckypunk> hey, my french is completely intelligible to a french speaker 15:40 <luckypunk> Though i probabxly sound equivilent to godmode0 15:40 <hypercubus> the installer already has native language packs btw 15:40 <jrandom> (perhaps a whitepaper or two on various aspects) 15:40 <jrandom> w3rd hyper 15:40 <deer> * oOo suspect we can master quite some language with the people online here ;) 15:40 <jrandom> (yeah, it'll be tough to translate the paragraph license ;) 15:40 <hypercubus> i could just make it throw up the panel to choose a language 15:40 <jrandom> agreed oOo 15:40 <hypercubus> heheh... libre: 15:40 <jrandom> gratis: 15:41 <luckypunk> gratis and libre 15:41 <luckypunk> damn french and their ability to have two words. 15:41 <jrandom> ok, anything else? 15:41 <hypercubus> we have 10 words for everything 15:41 <luckypunk> though libre also means free beer in quebec french. =( 15:41 <luckypunk> so much for that theory. 15:42 <jrandom> ok... if there's nothing else... 15:42 * jrandom winds up 15:42 * jrandom *baf*s the meeting closed